He has little influence in Britain.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (189 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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He has little influence in Britain.
How many voted based on the Euros as compared to fishers?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I would say about the same. I’d say a lot more genuinely believed the EU handed out money for aid without realising we’d actually handed far more over in the first place.
I would say they didn’t. I am sure people knew that we paid more in than we got out, particularly having seen a big red bus and heard the discussions about the net amount.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Supposing you're right.
Doesn't it show the stupidity of a referendum as it was constituted? No bugger seems to know what they actually voted for, let alone there being a consensus for one form of Brexit... anymore than a remain win would have been a consensus for the status quo.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Most of our educated youth voted labour at the general election as they believed trendy Mr Corbyn was pro Eu
Should we raise the voting age? Mr Corbyn wants to lower it. I wonder why.
Any things that will have tariffs imposed on them by the EU. The economy is slowing in comparison to other leading countries.
The EU is also protecting our farmers and ensuring certain conditions are met e.g. on food imports. We are already importing cheap clothing from Bangla Desh and Vietnam for example whilst being in the EU. How much cheaper is Africa than Bangla Desh and Vietnam? Companies such as H & M and PriMark put their mark up on these products from poorer countries. Maybe speak to them rather than voting Brexit and screwing up our economy?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
and how many voted May believing she was a brexiteer?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
She ran the election on the fact she was leaving Europe. The dimwit social media undergraduates voted for the old chap believing he was an EU advocate.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
maybe they voted for him because the Labour manifesto made clear pledges on how they would negotiate brexit. Something the tories are still arguing about among themselves even now.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Ah, but...
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No they thought he was pro Europe - not one of the most anti-EU politicians in parliament - at least admit it
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I've no evidence it's true. To be honest it doesn't bother me anyway. It's irrelevant now.
Still typical that we're discussing corbyn on the day, (or is it the day after?), the brexit impact reports reveal that the economy is in for a panning and the latest crime figures show massive increases.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
What’s fascinating is you support Theresa May on her view on Europe but believe Jeremy Corbyns views would leave us in economic ruin
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It will inevitably be his downfall, IMO.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Oh he will avoid the issue and pretend as long as he can
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
No. I've said numerous times. I'm not a natural EU supporter but we are intrinsically linked and getting out needed a lot more fore thought than we have given it.
I don't support the way we are leaving nor trust the people who are leading us out to do it successfully. Up to now, I've seen nothing to prove me wrong.
edit: that is to deliver a successful exit for 99% of the country. I'm sure Rees Mogg and co will benefit from avoiding the scrutiny of the new EU tax avoidance laws which by coincidence come in just as we leave.
I've also criticised Corbyn over his wishy washy approach to Europe and I still think it will cost him the party leadership.
We have heard all the claptrap about taking control of our borders ( which we had ) and regaining our sovereignty ( I had not noticed that we had lost our sovereignty, at least in anyway that has been detrimental to me ) and getting the chance to trade with countries such as the USA and China ( which we already trade with ). Apart from the decision to print blue passports, I cannot see any great benefits from leaving and there should be an opposition party to rally the people and smash the disorganised and squabbling Tory party. Unfortunately Corbyn is not the leader to do this. He has his left agenda which seems to be more important to him than criticising the way Brexit is heading. It is time that Brexit was put to bed once and for all before we end up losing any influence we have on European and world affairs. Farage and his talk of Vichy Britain is a deflection from the fact that we are in a weak position because of populists like him. I hope people get together to fight Brexit with facts and good arguments. The leavers are getting desperate ( e.g. Mogg pointing the finger at fibbing civil servants and the Telegraph attacking Soros as attempting to thwart Brexit ). Brexit is falling apart and that is because it is a bad idea, not because of civil servants or Soros.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
tbh if he was doing it properly, he'd be criticising the way Brexit is heading, as the noise sure as hell isn't about a left-leaning version of it!
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Well BoE states today interest rates are going to rise quicker than expected due to the economy doing better than predicted (forecast wrong again)
Also we were catorgorically told and I know you will agree with me that a even just a vote to leave will result in an emergency budget and 500k job loses basically overnight with a housing market crash to boot.
We are doing just fine and as for the leaked forecasts with forecasts in 15 years time we might be down 8% or whatever it was is simply beyond the pale for me. We don’t know what the weather will be doing this time next week but some geeks think they can predict a countries growth in 15 years time. No wonder they are always wrong and no one believes them.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
I voted brexit because I believe in this country. I believe in free markets and I believe in the nation state. I believe in borders and our own currency. I believe in elected MPs and laws made in this country. ( I also really like blue passports not going to lie)
As came out today the Bank of England are due to raise interest quicker than expected due to us doing better than predicted. How is that a sign of screwing up the economy out of interest?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
So all the things we've had, or could have had, while being a member of the European Union...
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Why are you so keen on federalism out of interest?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
You make some good points but to say we are doing fine simply isn't true. Are wage contraction and growth are both appalling compared to other major economies in the case of wage contraction and compared to other G7 countries in the case of growth.
I accept that may not all be down to brexit. It's. certainly only one of multiple factors in the car industry.
The world, especially the Eurozone and other EU countries, is doing better than expected. We are an EU country, so it is no surprise, but some countries are now growing faster as we have to cope with Brexit uncertainty.
The BoE would be under interest pressure anyway as Trump’s USA is leading the demand for more credit and wages are beginning to rise in other countries as a result of low unemployment. The U.K. also has some inflation caused by the recent dips against currencies such as the Euro. It was around 1,40 before Brexit, and is around 1,13 to the Euro now.
We are a nation state, we have borders, MEPs are elected, the heads of government in the European council are elected and Juncker, head civil servant, was appointed through an electoral college. The customs union and single market is a free trade area with 500 million inhabitants and trade deals or agreements with many other countries. Laws are made in this country and in addition we have rights and working conditions, including rules against discrimination, guaranteed paid holidays and limits on working hours, protected by the EU. Which EU „laws“ are you against?
If you believe in „this country“ how can you look at the chaos and deceit in and around May‘s cabinet, the lack of a clear idea of what Brexit is, the farce of negotiating without knowing what you are actually negotiating about, and the disgusting UK Brexit press.... and still proudly announce that this is what you voted for? Watching this debacle from abroad doesn’t make me proud of my „nation state“. I just despair at the unnecessary pain being inflicted on a poorly informed and, in parts, deliberately deceived electorate. Thank god the world economy is holding us up, although Trump’s leadership could bring that into turmoil.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Watching question time last night and the guy from the out means out group (or whatever they call themselves) was banging on about the creation of free ports post brexit and how this would create thousands of jobs. Obviously he’s never heard of something called IP Inward Processing - GOV.UK the company I work for have been using this for years.
Free ports can be good but also have their short falls. For instance Egypt’s exports 20% of its goods through free port arrangements. Using that as an example you could say it’s going to grow our export market but as always there’s a rub. 43% of our exports go into the EU largely because of the free movement of goods and services we enjoy as EU members.
So my point is it’s another smoke and mirrors gimmick. A) we already have a system that allows you to operate something like a free port without being set up in a designated free port area B) it’s going to be at cost to our largest export market C) is this something that the government are proposing to do post brexit anyway.
Free ports can be good but also have their short falls. For instance Egypt’s exports 20% of its goods through free port arrangements. Using that as an example you could say it’s going to grow our export market but as always there’s a rub. 43% of our exports go into the EU largely because of the free movement of goods and services we enjoy as EU members.
So my point is it’s another smoke and mirrors gimmick. A) we already have a system that allows you to operate something like a free port without being set up in a designated free port area B) it’s going to be at cost to our largest export market C) is this something that the government are proposing to do post brexit anyway.
On a side note.... there was a free Port in Hamburg... my Albanians ( customers ) told me that was how the Albanians in Hamburg became extremely rich ( in addition to their red light business). They worked with the customs officers and drove trucks with alcohol and cigarettes from the free port into Germany. There were plenty of other scams going on. It isn’t there anymore.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Interesting that you said there was one in Hamburg. 10 seconds on google and I pull this up https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/customs-
procedures/what-is-importation/free-zones_en
Sounding like another blue passport gimmick. Could do it anyway. If you look at the list the U.K. already has one designated free zone area.
There was a lot of scandal around the Hamburg one. One scam was buying TVs etc cheap somewhere, taking them apart, shipping to the Freeport, putting them back together again and saying assembled in the EU, thus dodging import taxes.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That happens a lot to gain EU certificates of origin or claim a country or origin. Nothing illegal about it so long as you pay all duties and tax of course. You just have to do a finishing process on a product. I had a cousin in Northern Ireland who used to work in a Waterford Crystal factory the other side of the border (somewhere near Clones IIRC) and the crystal goods used to come in from Eastern Europe somewhere but they used to do the finishing in Ireland so could claim it was a produce of Ireland and sell it to tourists and export it to America as such. Didn’t take a free zone to do it either.
Did you miss the bit from Carney about us not performing as well as the rest of the G7? 1% less growth because of Brexit rising to 2% by 2020? His forecast not as bad as some others. And holding back on rate rises?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
it's been mentioned on here loads but some people just don't want to accept it.
I agree with KOK when he says forecast are often wrong so it may pan out better than expected. But all the forecasts are poor and what else can the average man in the street like us go on?
it's been mentioned on here loads but some people just don't want to accept it.
I agree with KOK when he says forecast are often wrong so it may pan out better than expected. But all the forecasts are poor and what else can the average man in the street like us go on?
Yes, and all forecasts cannot cover for all unknowns. But, the trend is us losing ground. I see Brexit and Trump screwing up a good run. The world seems to be doing relatively well but, Trump‘s tax reform giving too much to the rich and not enough to the wage earners together with more military spending, maybe a wall and infrastructure projects will take up a massive amount of money and hike the US debt causing interest rates to climb and more uncertainty. That coupled with Brexit in Europe hurting us and the EU can only put a spanner in the works...
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Interestingly, he was very keen to distance himself from the suggestion that he wanted a 'hard Brexit'.