The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (45 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

You think...

Japan and the EU are due to ratify their deal in the new year. It’s already done.

Stop twisting things

 

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[martcov]

Ah. So the UK hasn't been offered anything now? :wideyed:

You said the UK had got close to a trade deal. Apparently it was only a comment in a newspaper. Nothing agreed, not to mention ratified. That could take a couple of years. Come back when it is signed and ratified.

 

[skybluetony176]

You said all the other countries would lower their rights towards what the rights of Vietnam are.

It is there in black and white. And strangely enough I even guessed what you would say just before you did. That is how poor your efforts are.

Twisting again. I said no such thing.

I said a minimum standard would be set. Not nearly the same thing. You would understand the difference if you had any idea what you were going on about.

 

[martcov]

And as usual you ignore the part that doesn't look good for the EU. I am in shock....

What? You mean the bit where Carney said Brexit is worse than the Europeans think? That makes the Europeans look bad? I think it makes people who voted Brexit look bad.

 

[Sick Boy]

You said the UK had got close to a trade deal. Apparently it was only a comment in a newspaper. Nothing agreed, not to mention ratified. That could take a couple of years. Come back when it is signed and ratified.

It's odd someone who was so opposed to neoliberalism and upset at members of society being left behind is now delighted with TTP.

Oh, and he's remain again now, apparently.

 

[skybluetony176]

And they are all going to lower their standards to that of Romania?

Ask Tony what he thinks.

You mean raise. Romanian working conditions in law are higher than Japan’s. Besides Japan is doing a trade deal not joining the EU, I’ll double check for you if you like but I don’t think Japanese working directive meets the minimum standard for EU membership.

 

[martcov]

It's odd someone who was so opposed to neoliberalism and upset at members of society being left behind is now delighted with TTP.

Oh, and he's remain again now, apparently.

There are lots of critics of TPP. I think some people are desperate to prove Brexit as beneficial and will grasp at any straw. I am really expecting Trump to come in soon with a „great deal“ and Fox, America‘s man in the government, to push for it.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I've based my doom and gloom on a no deal scenario which can be modelled because we would then have to follow as set of predefined rules. No one has came back with anything to contradict what I've said. If we do get a deal then you're right, without knowing the terms it's difficult to know what will happen.
Unfortunately no deal is looking increasingly likely.

There WILL be a deal...it is almost but not quite done - everything we are getting atm is posturing while the dots & crosses are put in

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[SkyblueBazza]

You seem to have missed it but Japan doesn’t want a bespoke deal with the U.K. they want us to join the ailing TPP. That might not even happen.

We need a bespoke deal with Japan once we leave the EU, on that I think we both agree. Certainly seems to be the gist of what you’re saying. I would say that anything less is an insult to the U.K. and TPP membership is less. If we’re going to leave the EU so we can do something stupid like join the TPP then leave really is a waste of time. If anyone backing leave welcomes the prospect of joining the TPP with open arms then I’d suggest that they’ve lost sight of what leave was supposed to be.

I was giving you a simple example of counter-position. After that you have applied all your own work as per usual...'nuff said!

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[skybluetony176]

I was giving you a simple example of counter-position. After that you have applied all your own work as per usual...'nuff said!

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You don’t think we deserve the respect of an individual, bespoke, negotiated trade deal with Japan then?

 

[Sick Boy]

There WILL be a deal...it is almost but not quite done - everything we are getting atm is posturing while the dots & crosses are put in

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There will be but whether or not it's acceptable to a vocal minority of swivel-eyed MPs is another matter.

 

[Astute]

Ha ha ha. Confirmation that you’ve lost the argument. You’ll be trying to change the subject to Salmayr next.

And there you go.

I try my best to have a debate. But you call it an argument.

I do understand though. That is why you and Mart are just lie after lie.

 

[Astute]

What? You mean the bit where Carney said Brexit is worse than the Europeans think? That makes the Europeans look bad? I think it makes people who voted Brexit look bad.

Error

For those in the EU. Not worse than they think.


They are just like you. They want the UK to suffer. They want us to do badly. They don't want us to get trade deals. They lie about what is going on.

But even worse they break rules and regulations. They pay off a commission that holds enquiries into what they do.

 

[Astute]

It's odd someone who was so opposed to neoliberalism and upset at members of society being left behind is now delighted with TTP.

Oh, and he's remain again now, apparently.

So SB.

I took you as much better than Tony and Mart. They have lied right through this thread.

Would you like to prove the point you have made?

Because it has become more pathetic than before.

And all because I put up more fraudulent misuse of funds and breaking/changing rules and regulations that the EU has done. It shows how they bought off the enquiry.

Or are you a part of the same plan?

Just try explaining how me saying we don't k ow if it is good or bad until we know the details is as you say?

 

[martcov]

Error

For those in the EU. Not worse than they think.


They are just like you. They want the UK to suffer. They want us to do badly. They don't want us to get trade deals. They lie about what is going on.

But even worse they break rules and regulations. They pay off a commission that holds enquiries into what they do.

Any links to your bullshit?

„They“ did not pay off a commission. At worst Selmayr is alleged to have promised some form of continued privileges for up to 3 years for commissioners after their term of 5 years ends. Including security and cars. Which would make him a popular choice, and certainly seems like a scam.

Now, if you like lies and half truths...

Here they are from the British lying press ( with the truth as an answer ): European Commission in the UK - European Commission
.

 

[martcov]

So SB.

I took you as much better than Tony and Mart. They have lied right through this thread.

Would you like to prove the point you have made?

Because it has become more pathetic than before.

And all because I put up more fraudulent misuse of funds and breaking/changing rules and regulations that the EU has done. It shows how they bought off the enquiry.

Or are you a part of the same plan?

Just try explaining how me saying we don't k ow if it is good or bad until we know the details is as you say?

Haha... says Mr Twister of Facts, Putting Words into Other People‘s Mouths, Make it up as you go Along... You just ignore links and factual answers.

 

[Astute]

Any links to your bullshit?

„They“ did not pay off a commission. At worst Selmayr is alleged to have promised some form of continued privileges for up to 3 years for commissioners after their term of 5 years ends. Including security and cars. Which would make him a popular choice, and certainly seems like a scam.

Now, if you like lies and half truths...

Here they are from the British lying press ( with the truth as an answer ): European Commission in the UK - European Commission
.

So you admit that those who took part in the enquiry are now going to be paid 3 years after they leave their job. All announced after the enquiry started. Over a quarter of a million each. And now this for their friends and family

European Commission's "Equal Opportunity" Practices Under Fire | EU Training

So how can you even try to say it isn't a pay off for those who were supposed to do a full enquiry on a subject even you had to admit was a scam.

 

[Astute]

Haha... says Mr Twister of Facts, Putting Words into Other People‘s Mouths, Make it up as you go Along... You just ignore links and factual answers.

Links and factual.answers?

Anyone can find the words they want on the net. The content is easy to find. Where the content comes from us important.

Just like you say I am delighted about TPP. Somehow you got that from me saying that we need to know the details before knowing if it is good or bad. The only good thing is knowing other countries want trade deals with us ASAP and not having to wait many years like you have preached to us.

And this putting words into your mouth. That is me showing you to be wrong yet again. If you didn't keep contradicting yourself you wouldn't have said two opposites constantly.

 

[martcov]

Links and factual.answers?

Anyone can find the words they want on the net. The content is easy to find. Where the content comes from us important.

Just like you say I am delighted about TPP. Somehow you got that from me saying that we need to know the details before knowing if it is good or bad. The only good thing is knowing other countries want trade deals with us ASAP and not having to wait many years like you have preached to us.

And this putting words into your mouth. That is me showing you to be wrong yet again. If you didn't keep contradicting yourself you wouldn't have said two opposites constantly.

We already knew that countries want trade deals with the UK asap. Nothing new there. The difference being that trade deals don’t happen over night. They have to be negotiated, which can take years. Davis wanted to rubber stamp a copy of the EU deal with Japan for the UK to save time. If we go into the TPP, which is already „complicated“ as there are points which some countries are not happy with, it will probably take longer than a one to one negotiation. Which is the complaint leavers have about the EU having to take other countries‘ views into consideration.

What happened to the original copycat trade deal idea?

 

[martcov]

So you admit that those who took part in the enquiry are now going to be paid 3 years after they leave their job. All announced after the enquiry started. Over a quarter of a million each. And now this for their friends and family

European Commission's "Equal Opportunity" Practices Under Fire | EU Training

So how can you even try to say it isn't a pay off for those who were supposed to do a full enquiry on a subject even you had to admit was a scam.

There are several reports on this. The retiring Commissioners get 2 years at two thirds salary as a transition period at the moment. The proposal linked to Selmayr in reports, is to increase this to 3 years, or maybe even 5 years. The EC cannot authorise this on it’s own. So, I don’t know what happened in the end, whether it was approved, who else had to approve it, why it was suggested ( what reasoning), by whom it was first suggested ( if it was really Selmayr’s idea ) and so on. Yes, it stinks, but I find it strange that the reports don’t say more than the move was linked to Selmayr and may be why the EC seems not unduly concerned about the appointment. Would love to have a reliable link from you saying what actually happened and if there was a deal..

Edit: I have read on several links that the transition payments were for 3 years anyway. Seems to be more than one version of this story.

 

[martcov]

So you admit that those who took part in the enquiry are now going to be paid 3 years after they leave their job. All announced after the enquiry started. Over a quarter of a million each. And now this for their friends and family

European Commission's "Equal Opportunity" Practices Under Fire | EU Training

So how can you even try to say it isn't a pay off for those who were supposed to do a full enquiry on a subject even you had to admit was a scam.

Who took part in the first enquiry?

Do you mean the assessment of the appointment?

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-18-2545_en.pdf

Note the answer on „sweeteners“. The „sweeteners“ were apparently announced during the appointment, but the EC says they were not, and couldn’t be implemented by the EC alone anyway. Do you know if they were ever implemented?

 

[martcov]

So you admit that those who took part in the enquiry are now going to be paid 3 years after they leave their job. All announced after the enquiry started. Over a quarter of a million each. And now this for their friends and family

European Commission's "Equal Opportunity" Practices Under Fire | EU Training

So how can you even try to say it isn't a pay off for those who were supposed to do a full enquiry on a subject even you had to admit was a scam.

What is the truth?

„10. Is it true that Commissioners agreed to Mr Selmayr's appointment as Secretary-General only because they had been promised additional "sweeteners", like increased pension allowances or financial benefits after the term of office?
This is not true. The Commission neither had nor has such plans. It does not have the legal competence to change the allowances of Commissioners“

Any links as to what happened in the end?

 

[martcov]

So you admit that those who took part in the enquiry are now going to be paid 3 years after they leave their job. All announced after the enquiry started. Over a quarter of a million each. And now this for their friends and family

European Commission's "Equal Opportunity" Practices Under Fire | EU Training

So how can you even try to say it isn't a pay off for those who were supposed to do a full enquiry on a subject even you had to admit was a scam.

From what I seen, they were getting 3 years transition payments in the past anyway. I read something about them keeping the cars, drivers and security. Maybe that is what is meant as extras?

 

[Astute]

We already knew that countries want trade deals with the UK asap. Nothing new there. The difference being that trade deals don’t happen over night.

Which is why you are pissed off that we are being offered deals.

You wanted the bullying tactics of the EU to work.

Just like with Carney. You made out that he k iws what he is talking about. But now he says that the EU is nowhere near ready for a hard Brexit you somehow don't understand what he is saying.

 

[Astute]

From what I seen, they were getting 3 years transition payments in the past anyway. I read something about them keeping the cars, drivers and security. Maybe that is what is meant as extras?

Lies Mart lies.

You admitted that it was bad that they got it offered. Now you are changing history. It changed while the investigation was occurring.

I suppose it was just coincidence.

And I suppose these same people who are now allowed to put family and friends forward for a job that normally takes years of hard work where most normally fail and they go directly to the last round of selection was also a coincidence although it was brought in during the investigation also.

 

[Astute]

What is the truth?

„10. Is it true that Commissioners agreed to Mr Selmayr's appointment as Secretary-General only because they had been promised additional "sweeteners", like increased pension allowances or financial benefits after the term of office?
This is not true. The Commission neither had nor has such plans. It does not have the legal competence to change the allowances of Commissioners“

Any links as to what happened in the end?

So those at the top.....Juncker and Selmayr....had nothing to do with it?

 

[Astute]

Who took part in the first enquiry?

Do you mean the assessment of the appointment?

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-18-2545_en.pdf

Note the answer on „sweeteners“. The „sweeteners“ were apparently announced during the appointment, but the EC says they were not, and couldn’t be implemented by the EC alone anyway. Do you know if they were ever implemented?

They already have been. You read the link previously. Now you have suddenly forgotten all about it although you admitted that it was totally wrong.

 

[skybluetony176]

And there you go.

I try my best to have a debate. But you call it an argument.

I do understand though. That is why you and Mart are just lie after lie.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Cheers, I needed that.

 

[skybluetony176]

So SB.

I took you as much better than Tony and Mart. They have lied right through this thread.

Would you like to prove the point you have made?

Because it has become more pathetic than before.

And all because I put up more fraudulent misuse of funds and breaking/changing rules and regulations that the EU has done. It shows how they bought off the enquiry.

Or are you a part of the same plan?

Just try explaining how me saying we don't k ow if it is good or bad until we know the details is as you say?

Ha ha ha ha ha. On form this morning.

 

[skybluetony176]

I told you astute would be on selmayr next.

 

[skybluetony176]

The lengths universities are willing to go to post brexit to maintain funding University 'dual nationality' plan for Brexit

 

[Astute]

I told you astute would be on selmayr next.

No lies to come out with today?

And I know you don't want me to mention how bent the EU is. Unlucky.

Would be different if you tried having an honest debate. And not having a go at anything that might be slightly good for the UK. It is as though you want us to fail.

And you have also quoted Carney before when it seems bad news for the UK. But nothing at all when he says something not good for the EU. Is he wrong this time?

 

[Macca]

Bloody hell are you lot still giving yourself a heart attack about something that will never happen

 

[Astute]

The lengths universities are willing to go to post brexit to maintain funding University 'dual nationality' plan for Brexit

At least they are making plans for all eventualities. Unlike the EU.

That is what makes me think even more that the hard ball tactics from them will end soon. But you won't like that.

 

[Astute]

Bloody hell are you lot still giving yourself a heart attack about something that will never happen

I can't stand liars and lies.

I am supposed to be celebrating TPP. I would be celebrating if all them idiots got around the table and sorted things out.