As both are not popular with most voters, remain has to be on the table as an alternative.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (26 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
As both are not popular with most voters, remain has to be on the table as an alternative.
Apart from him having being expelled from Labour.
The problem is in the time trading on WTO many business would go bust, relocate or at the very least completely restructure their supply chains. They then might need to do the same once a deal is reached. WTO just isn’t a practical option.
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Ian1779
Well-Known Member
About bloody time.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So let’s think this through (even though John McDonnell says that you are talking horseshit and this won’t happen)
Labour Party will not be able to call this motion until September
It’s not going to win it and any Tory Mp voting for it will be deselected and out of s Job - older ones? Peter bone, Bill Cash?
Even if it did then Corbyn will try to form a government and fail
Then a general election is scheduled
Oh we’ve already left
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
It’s only the end if they go full tilt remain.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So what - won’t stop him campaigning for his love of all things Brussels
Grendel
Well-Known Member
They say they will be supporting remain on the ballot and are pushing it to become official policy
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Spoken like a true German
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I was going to put that in too, but the furore of MP's voting for remain against the previous referendum results would just see the likes of Farage et al getting more traction. To get remain it would have to come from the people, hence the second referendum with remain and no deal as the options. (I would say remain, May's deal, no deal) but that would just lead to Brexiteers claiming that the ballot split the leave vote and favoured remain so isn't viable).
The other potential option is to get an idea of what the public want by putting all the different facets like customs union/freedom of movement etc on a sheet and saying to you want to keep or lose them so the government can actually approach the negotiations with an idea of exactly which bits the people most wanted to keep/lose. But in that scenario I reckon you'd end up with every single option being to keep them and thus we wouldn't actually want to leave any part at all. Plus it'd be pretty complicated to do.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
It’s a big mistake.
There’s data that suggests lab lost 70% of their votes to pro remain parties so don’t be so sure.
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Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
He was asking for it just like Heseltine was for the tories. These dinosaurs are so out of touch and the worst bit is they still they they are popular and liked. It’s worrying tbh.
Just like Blair, he has no idea when he pops his head up for backing remain he hurts the remain campaign massively. He thinks he is helping.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Irrelevant as this isn’t a general election - labour would lose masses of seats in the north and will be finished
Grendel
Well-Known Member
If there was a general election the obvious thing from a Tory perspective to do is do s deal with Farage
Promise immediate exit from the Eu and of labour now side with remain get Farage to only put brexit candidates on key labour areas who want leave. Stand the Tory candidates down. Labour would get smashed in these seats
Boris Johnson would be s hopeless PM but would be a very good general election vote winner and there is every chance he’d get through
Promise immediate exit from the Eu and of labour now side with remain get Farage to only put brexit candidates on key labour areas who want leave. Stand the Tory candidates down. Labour would get smashed in these seats
Boris Johnson would be s hopeless PM but would be a very good general election vote winner and there is every chance he’d get through
Quite possibly how it will play out but the fallout from no deal will surely then destroy the Tories.
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Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Probably right... but you have to look at locations of those seats. The Labour leave vote is concentrated in the N of England. If Labour loses that they can’t make it up by floaty centrists from the Home Counties.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Businesses are more prepared to accept this than you’d believe. They may not want it but the general view is a resolution will be had
The negotiating strategy all along was totally wrong. The strategy should have been to prepare for leave first on the worst terms and not even speak to the Eu until then. Instead May is like some sales manager whose got some dealer support to offer her dealers. She’s told the maximum is 5 grand but get as low as you can
Every dealer May stumbles into she drops her trousers and hands the 5 grand over
The Eu knew under her they’d be safe, now not so. The tactics on both sides will change very quickly
They could have done that if they hadn’t started the article 50 process so soon.
How prepared for no deal do you think business is and what are you basing it on?
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s probably about right. The problem is people think they can rewrite history and the problem goes away. Win a second vote (call it a people’s vote and hope that sounds better) even by 0.1% and it goes away
It will never go away. As history tells you re writing history ends up with history repeating itself again and again
Once it was obvious there would be problems a second ballot with a series of leave options should have been presented
Acknowledge the result but acknowledge many clearly want close ties with the Eu. So Norway option Canada option etc. Have a long period of debate and the public vote it’s preferred choice - we will one day leave the Eu and the ways it’s going we are just going to fall out
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I’m basing it on my own experience with the company I worked for
Interestingly, so I am. Their verdict was it would cause huge expense and make the company unviable.
My worry (again based on where I work) is that companies are scared to public say what they think the consequences of no deal would be like as it’s labelled as scare mongering and they also don’t want to be seen as interfering in the public process.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
No company knows and if you are a non Eu exporter even in relatively short term the impact on currency would be positive
Companies should have been preparing but remember we’ve had crashes of immeasurable scale in the last which have caused damage but in the end the economy is big enough to self repair and as I say it’s not as if it’s going to be very long before a resolution is then found
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Leave would win by a bigger margin
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
If I’m not mistaken that business had already gone down the route of moving some aspects of production outside the EU. That would obviously lead them to be better prepared than others. Think about all the SMEs and their lack of resources when thinking about tackling Brexit. It isn’t quite as easy as saying one’s prepared so they’re all prepared.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I think Leave would win again... some remainers are oblivious to this...
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I agree entirely, but at least it would give a definitive set of rules we would be trading by and could focus some of those who are under the impression leave means "cherry pick the bits we want and get rid of the rest", especially those in the business world wanting Brexit of exactly what it is that they're voting for.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Remoaners**** They need to get a grip, embarrassing the way they go on
Would probably want a 3rd vote when they lose again
Because I’m speaking factually?
Haha. Brexit is a Brexiteer mess. They voted for something they hadn’t agreed on beforehand and fully misunderstood the attitude of the EU, how the EU works and how much damage Brexit would do to the UK.
Well, let’s go ahead then. At least the argument that people didn’t know what they were voting for would be over.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Do ya honestly rekon remain would win? Not a chance
A pound collapse would be advantageous for some in the short term. But companies relying on imported parts in manufacturing would have to pay more for imports. The advantage would soon evaporate.
The assumption that the economy is big enough to survive in the end is probably right, but you have to endure self inflicted hardship in the meantime and there is no guarantee that the economy will be in the same place it would have been if you hadn’t had Brexit. The likelihood is that the prophesied trade deals will not be as advantageous as those we have and are working on through the EU as we will be a distressed trading partner. A poor negotiating position to start from.