skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Ain't that the truth.
Victory for the City of Coventry yesterday (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter SydneySkyBlue
- Start date
Ain't that the truth.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Indeed. The logic is that it Coventry playing in Coventry isn't viable then no sane investor would touch them. Ginetta's wish is to kill off the club.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's his wish. I think he's just misguided in what he thinks he's going to achieve.
Nick
Administrator
I'm not sure what you mean, people can blame different people for different things happening surely?
As new things happen, surely different people can be blamed for the different situations?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It wouldn't if we stopped focussing on who's at fault, and instead focussed on what we wanted.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more and I'm sick of saying it. One day SISU will be gone and so will all the politicians who have helped fuck up our Club. However, one cert is that Wasps will still be here. In 10, 20, 30 years time Fisher, Lucas, etc won't matter, but the Ricoh Boat will still have sailed.
SydneySkyBlue
Member
This.
They didn't take us home because the business model didn't work for the club. They took us home because it no longer worked for them.
There's only so much debt they can burden the club with before they have to leave.
As long as it is viable for them to hold onto CCFC they will do. It us up to us as fans to force their hand. Only boycott will do that.
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D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Less than convinced about that personally. It's high risk for sure, they might well be but... the track record of clubs rocking up long term and lasting in 'alien' places ain't great,
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
What happens once SISU stop piling debt on the club?
duffer
Well-Known Member
How does your logic work here RT?
It's given, by most, that the club needs some kind of access to revenues from the stadium and surrounds. It's accepted by you above, that it makes little financial sense to build a new stadium. The council talked about building trust when the club returned from the Ricoh, which suggested scope at some point for a negotiation. Despite this, the council, by selling to Wasps who also need access to revenues from the Ricoh to survive, have locked CCFC out of them.
And yet you don't think that it's more probable that the club moves now. To me that's irrational. Whether it's gone from 'possible' to 'probable', or 'extremely unlikely' to just 'unlikely', clearly it's more in the club's interests to move now than it was before. On that basis it simply has to be more likely.
As for the door (to the Ricoh management company) being open and offers invited, let's look at that claim...
At the point when the club came back, did the council suggest that SISU made an offer for ACL, or did they actually say that it was time to rebuild trust?
I'll help here - this is the article, August 21st 2014, headline...
Council chief: We need time to rebuild trust before we discuss Ricoh Arena ownership
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/council-chief-need-time-rebuild-7651892
And did they ever make the same offer available to SISU as they made to Wasps - 100% of ACL for £5.5m, plus a 250-year lease? It would seem not. And in fact even when there was the opportunity after the fact, Higgs chose to take Wasps offer over CCFC's - the only reason for inviting an offer from CCFC Ltd being that they were legally required to, of course.
From where I'm sitting, the door wasn't open to the club buying ACL at the point we returned from Sixfields, the council (and Higgs) were actually in the process of closing it, bolting it, and bricking it up forever. Bitterly ironic, given that the Council's deputy leader actually said...
"All parties concerned need to learn to open doors the door for one another as opposed to allowing it to slam in other people’s faces."
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torchomatic
Well-Known Member
MichaelCCFC
New Member
So let's give it a go...ccc are no longer involved and sisu should go too; wasps should also buzz off (and I agree that their survival at the Ricoh is far from certain); the Trust should work with local business people to put together a fan led ownership model drawing on the experience of others but suitable for our specific circumstances - after the last 20 years I'm tired of hoping that the next rich person who comes along will be better than their predecessor so it's time for a change of thinking
BUT duffer fails to recognise that business partnerships are always based on trust and Sisu have never, not once, earned any.
SydneySkyBlue
Member
How do you mean?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
MichaelCCFC
New Member
The dating agency idea seems to be catching on
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
In your grand plan. We all boycott and SISU stop piling debt on to the club. What happens next?
mark_ccfc
Well-Known Member
Because the people of Coventry won't need to pay for the legal fees every time SISU take the council to Court?
M&B Stand
Well-Known Member
How did your beloved cockney rugby club earn any?
SydneySkyBlue
Member
3 things could happen:
1) they have to fund it themselves
2) they cut their losses and sell up (and it's been proven now that there would be interested parties)
3) the club goes out of business
We all know the first one won't happen.
The second one is what we all want.
And here's the bit you wanted to hear:
I am willing to take a chance on the third one happening. Because the club as it is, is not one I can support anyway.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
As long as they win then recover these fees from SISU don't they ?
duffer
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure where I failed to recognise that. Clearly trust had been lost. The council highlighted that, and said that it needed time to be rebuilt.
Rather than allowing that to happen though, they were actually in the process of selling to Wasps. Let me just reiterate that. At the very point that the council were inviting the club back, and talking about rebuilding trust before considering ownership discussions, they were selling ACL to a third party behind everyone's backs.
Does that not raise questions for you about how much the council can be trusted?
I've been largely pro-council and anti-SISU for a long time, but look at the facts here and tell me how much you'd trust the council if you were running the club (or indeed any other business).
You might want to look at how they've treated CRFC too in all of this, with more broken promises regarding consultation over the Wasps move etc.
I wouldn't trust SISU as far as I could spit a rat, but what's surprising (to me) is how much the council are prepared to lie too when it suits them.
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Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
1. They're already funding it themselves.
2. Which interested parties are these?
3. Suppose this happens. What next?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
They will need to pay if Wasps can't make ACL profitable.
mattylad
Member
I have to hold my hands up and say outside of the CCFC fans on here I am struggling to find anyone who isn't a) over the moon that SISU will never get the Ricoh b) looking forward to having a top flight sports team in the city again.
Now I can and have made the argument for CCFC having a greater need for the 50% share Higgs sold to Wasps but you can't go against the majority and they seem quite happy with the way the deal has turned out.
Now I can and have made the argument for CCFC having a greater need for the 50% share Higgs sold to Wasps but you can't go against the majority and they seem quite happy with the way the deal has turned out.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Sorry dude. I think we'll have to agree to disagree because I think you're clutching at straws.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I think that says a lot about the mentality of people in Coventry who don't support their own teams rather than those who do. Shallow, short termist, whatever you want to call it, it stinks.
mattylad
Member
To play devils advocate perhaps it says alot about how the sports teams in Coventry have made people feel? Look at the massive PR job Wasps have done so far, it probably eclipses everything we have done in the last 5 years!
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Be careful how you bullshit and people will fall for it? It's worked a treat on many on here, those who were opposed to franchising and moving our team seem to have welcomed Wasps with open arms. Lucas being a prime example.
SydneySkyBlue
Member
1. Good, I hope you're right.
2. "SISU are the only show in town". Remember that?
3. What happens next could well be an AFC Coventry. One that, given the size of our city and the catchment area around it, could be successful.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
You're forgetting one very important fact: that even after returning to The Ricoch, SISU said that they were not interested in bidding for ACL or the stadium because they were building their own ground. At no point did they make a bid until the belated, too-little-too-late bid for the Higgs share (which in itself showed how badly their previous brinkmanship, even after returning to The Ricoh, had burnt them).
The "make the same offer available to SISU" concept is a red herring too and absolute nonsesnse as a concept. If SISU wanted it, why didn't they make a bid-instead of continually protesting that their eyes lay elsewhere? If someone else has made a bid, and SISU wish to make a bid, then bloody do it-there was nothing stopping them. Generally speaking, the seller doesn't go around contacting prospective buyers asking them if they'd like to make an offer! And why on earth would you offer a bid from one company to another company that as far as the best evidence available suggests, is simply not interested? If it was all just spin by SISU to say that they weren't interested, they only have themselves to blame for it backfiring so badly.
And if you are going to go around as a seller making prospective offers to potential buyers, do you do it with companies that you distrust who have been trying to drive you out of business for the last two years?
Your view comes from a historical perspective and it's trying to re-write the reality and atmosphere of the time with the benefit of hindsight of where we are, and how screwed we are, now. Maybe if SISU hadn't weasled their way out of the earlier lease we'd have had a better chance of owning the ground or ACL?