Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (66 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I believe that society as a whole benefits from social democracy and the Tories don't stand for that

This is the thing over the years I've found harder and harder to reconcile.

Why do we want to put a party in charge of society that, fundamentally, doesn't believe society exists? It sees it as individuals and everyone for themselves. Get as much for yourself as possible and fuck everyone else.

It'd be like having a vegan in charge of McDonalds.

 

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[Grendel]

No you weren't

He was talking about as a 16 year old he had no money and qualifications and achieved that and I asked is that something a vote for labour encourages.

you seem a bit slow?

 

[Astute]

We get it - in fact most people generally agree with your point.

But we’re not the ones that need to be convinced. Tell us how you intend to change a mindset of people that will actively vote NOT in their own interests?

Most on here don't seem to agree.

You have to appeal to most in some way. The Tories do it by lowering tax. That is why our services get shafted.

Hopefully when this is all over the majority will be happy to pay more tax. Frontline staff deserve much more. And this isn't just pay. The problem has always been people don't vote for tax increases. The floating voters vote for what is best for them. But maybe most will realise what is more important.

And no more free internet for all. The money raised needs to go where it is needed. To care for people that need it.

 

[Grendel]

This is the thing over the years I've found harder and harder to reconcile.

Why do we want to put a party in charge of society that, fundamentally, doesn't believe society exists? It sees it as individuals and everyone for themselves. Get as much for yourself as possible and fuck everyone else.

It'd be like having a vegan in charge of McDonalds.

Have you ever considered thats how people think?

 

[Astute]

The 50-64 age group barely equates to a third of baby boomer generations.

Are they the boomers? Did those who have reached retirement already have the same problem?

 

[Astute]

We need 70000 workers though. By your own admission only 25000 Brits applied. We need to fly them in regardless.

We? Yet again it was a private company that chartered the flight.

And we will be in recession when we open up again. Just like most of the world.

We don't need. But the company bosses who make the money will make even more money by bringing in cheap labour. You are for this until it is having a go at those making the money. Then it is bad.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

not surprising when the population has increased by over 8 million people since turn of the century. first time buyers priced out by private landlords so people revert to rent. why is that? country overpopulated too many people being allowed into the country. This puts a burden on nhs, schools, transport and housing. not difficult to work out

Not the massive increase in people living alone compared to yesteryear, when everyone left home when they got married. Plus an increasingly older population (or at least at the moment) that has meant properties that would become available 10-20 years earlier than they do now keeping the property ladder moving. In olden times when a parent got elderly they were moved in with their children to be cared for. Now it's just get the carers to look after them.

Then there is the issue of many properties being bought by a few people to be rented, so young people are priced out, have to rent preventing them putting together a deposit and thus can't get on the ladder.

Yes, immigration will put pressure on housing (although people handily forget that people do emigrate as well so you need to look at the net figure) but nothing compared to homegrown problems of our own making.

But don't let that get in the way of the 'bloody immigrants' rhetoric.

 

[Astute]

This is the thing over the years I've found harder and harder to reconcile.

Why do we want to put a party in charge of society that, fundamentally, doesn't believe society exists? It sees it as individuals and everyone for themselves. Get as much for yourself as possible and fuck everyone else.

It'd be like having a vegan in charge of McDonalds.

Lower tax.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Probably don’t patronise them that they should know better and you know what’s good for them

Ignorance is a virtue

 

[Astute]

Not the massive increase in people living alone compared to yesteryear, when everyone left home when they got married. Plus an increasingly older population (or at least at the moment) that has meant properties that would become available 10-20 years earlier than they do now keeping the property ladder moving. In olden times when a parent got elderly they were moved in with their children to be cared for. Now it's just get the carers to look after them.

Then there is the issue of many properties being bought by a few people to be rented, so young people are priced out, have to rent preventing them putting together a deposit and thus can't get on the ladder.

Yes, immigration will put pressure on housing (although people handily forget that people do emigrate as well so you need to look at the net figure) but nothing compared to homegrown problems of our own making.

But don't let that get in the way of the 'bloody immigrants' rhetoric.

You can buy a house not too far from me for less than 40k. But people still rent. Why is this?

How about what would happen if these landlords didn't buy properties to rent out. Where would those who can't buy live?

 

[skybluetony176]

Are they the boomers? Did those who have reached retirement already have the same problem?

They’re the last of the boomers, boomers were born mid 40’s to mid 60’s meaning that the majority have already retired. So when you’re talking about a percentage of 50-64 year olds struggling to find employment you can’t equate the experience to a percentage of a percentage of a percentage of boomers to all boomers. The vast majority of boomers had it good so your one minute the boomers had it good the next they didn’t so make your mind argument is flimsy.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

See the NHS is running out of gowns now


So the government of the world's 6th biggest economy have failed to procure enough fit for purpose testing kits, face masks, gloves and gowns during this pandemic.

What a fucking shower.

I'm pretty sure Hancock said in one of the pressers only a few days ago there wasn't an issue with the amount of PPE? They really are wasting it aren't they....

 

[clint van damme]

I'm pretty sure Hancock said in one of the pressers only a few days ago there wasn't an issue with the amount of PPE? They really are wasting it aren't they....

He's an absolute cretin. And a dangerous one

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I'm pretty sure Hancock said in one of the pressers only a few days ago there wasn't an issue with the amount of PPE? They really are wasting it aren't they....

It’s very noticeable that even on here the pro-government voices have stopped trying to pretend we’re doing well and it’s veered off to the political side of things. Not even the most ardent conservative can any longer say that in any way, shape or form this crisis has been handled well.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

He was talking about as a 16 year old he had no money and qualifications and achieved that and I asked is that something a vote for labour encourages.

you seem a bit slow?

achieved what? This is the guy who wants to shoot migrant boats, has a massive chip on his shoulder about everything and is permanently obnoxious- what has he ‘achieved’ exactly?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Probably don’t patronise them that they should know better and you know what’s good for them

Because you definitely don't see the likes of Johnson, JRM, Cameron etc. thinking they're superior to 'ordinary' folk and know what's best for them? But they patronise them in a plummy accent so that's fine.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Most on here don't seem to agree.

You have to appeal to most in some way. The Tories do it by lowering tax. That is why our services get shafted.

Hopefully when this is all over the majority will be happy to pay more tax. Frontline staff deserve much more. And this isn't just pay. The problem has always been people don't vote for tax increases. The floating voters vote for what is best for them. But maybe most will realise what is more important.

And no more free internet for all. The money raised needs to go where it is needed. To care for people that need it.

They tend to lower taxes mostly for the already well off or big business. Like the Republicans in the US when they speak of tax cuts generally it’s not tax cuts for Joe Bloggs. They can’t run on what they actually believe as nobody would vote for it so they have to use rhetorical tricks to get people to vote against their own self interest. They want socialism for the rich and rugged individualism for everyone else.

People need reminding that we already get a lot of ‘free stuff’ in the form of schooling up to the age of 18, healthcare for life, rubbish collection, fire and rescue, policing and a social safety net. These things weren’t always a given and if those with small c conservative views always had their way we wouldn’t have them or if we did it would be the American version at best. The challenge for social democrats is to frame the narrative and dictate it so that this way of thinking is normal and being a Thatcher child is seen as odd.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

achieved what? This is the guy who wants to shoot migrant boats, has a massive chip on his shoulder about everything and is permanently obnoxious- what has he ‘achieved’ exactly?

Has a well paid job at a poorly performing car manufacturer, then again so did the guy you’re quoting

 

[skybluetony176]

We? Yet again it was a private company that chartered the flight.

And we will be in recession when we open up again. Just like most of the world.

We don't need. But the company bosses who make the money will make even more money by bringing in cheap labour. You are for this until it is having a go at those making the money. Then it is bad.

We? Farms are private companies. Stands to reason that a private company flew them in. Not sure at all what point you’re trying to make there when the “we” is clearly the U.K.

The world is about to change, no one can predict what to accurately but the fact is at this moment in time we are 70000 temporary workers short in one sector alone, 25000 U.K. workers have applied to help fill that void, that’s applied, not all of those will take a job offered and not all of those will be offered a job so we still need at least 45000 workers this summer as things stand. Where are they coming from?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

He was talking about as a 16 year old he had no money and qualifications and achieved that and I asked is that something a vote for labour encourages.

you seem a bit slow?

So you weren't in any way making a general point about young people aspiring to own large property..........

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So you weren't in any way making a general point about young people aspiring to own large property..........

What he and Coventrian ignore is that the latter is a racist prick and it has nothing to do with his background.

 

[David O'Day]

Has a well paid job at a poorly performing car manufacturer, then again so did the guy you’re quoting

In the grand scheme of things he isn't that well paid. Family members of mine earn 4 to.5 as much.

500k houses in covel aren't what they used to be. We sold our 1 bedroom flat in london for 300k.

He's doing alright if he is telling the truth. JLR aren't likely to be employing as many people in future

None of this has anything to do with the fact he's a prize bellend, a racist who has wanted to driw immigrants and most likely ugly as fuck.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[skybluetony176]

Because you definitely don't see the likes of Johnson, JRM, Cameron etc. thinking they're superior to 'ordinary' folk and know what's best for them? But they patronise them in a plummy accent so that's fine.

The most patronising thing I’ve heard from any mp in the last few years is Rees-Mogg going on about Brexit putting shoes on feet as if we should be grateful for the basic necessity of shoes, not that it was ever an issue pre Brexit.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Have you ever considered thats how people think?

So if someone came to someone's house, beat them to a pulp and stole all their belongings I assume you'd expect them to congratulate the robber on their individualism and looking after number one. Or do you think they'd call the police?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

In the grand scheme of things he isn't that well paid. Family members of mine earn 4 to.5 as much.

500k houses in covel aren't what they used to be. We sold our 1 bedroom flat in london for 300k.

He's doing alright if he is telling the truth. JLR aren't likely to be employing as many people in future

None of this has anything to do with the fact he's a prize bellend, a racist who has wanted to driw immigrants and most likely ugly as fuck.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

He still earns more than me I think

 

[skybluetony176]

achieved what? This is the guy who wants to shoot migrant boats, has a massive chip on his shoulder about everything and is permanently obnoxious- what has he ‘achieved’ exactly?

Being angry over trivial things?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The most patronising thing I’ve heard from any mp in the last few years is Rees-Mogg going on about Brexit putting shoes on feet as if we should be grateful for the basic necessity of shoes, not that it was ever an issue pre Brexit.

If that’s what he says in public what the hell does he say when he thinks nobody’s listening

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You can buy a house not too far from me for less than 40k. But people still rent. Why is this?

How about what would happen if these landlords didn't buy properties to rent out. Where would those who can't buy live?

If the landlords didn't buy them as a business investment (thus giving them greater access to finance) pushing the prices up, properties would be more affordable and those that can't buy would be able to.

Yes, some people would choose to rent, possibly due to not having an intention to stay somewhere long and the hassle of going through buying property that you'd be looking to sell very soon anyway is more of an inconvenience. But there are loads of people who would love to buy and can't.

 

[Grendel]

Has a well paid job at a poorly performing car manufacturer, then again so did the guy you’re quoting

Bitterness and resentment - more excellent qualities

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If the landlords didn't buy them as a business investment (thus giving them greater access to finance) pushing the prices up, properties would be more affordable and those that can't buy would be able to.

Yes, some people would choose to rent, possibly due to not having an intention to stay somewhere long and the hassle of going through buying property that you'd be looking to sell very soon anyway is more of an inconvenience. But there are loads of people who would love to buy and can't.

We were being charged £850 a month to rent a two bed place in Cov and at the time we were each only on £22k as first year teachers. With student loan payments as well the take home pay wasn’t great and if we had a kid on top there’d be no chance of saving to buy.

 

[skybluetony176]

Has a well paid job at a poorly performing car manufacturer, then again so did the guy you’re quoting

I blame the management. Lions and the odd racist led by donkeys.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

When is a ventilator not a ventilator? When the U.K. are trying to get some... another shambles

 

[Grendel]

So you weren't in any way making a general point about young people aspiring to own large property..........

No I was quoting him as an example of someone you’d expect to be a labour voter and what would a vote for labour do to enhance his quality of life and oddly no one has yet answered

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Bitterness and resentment - more excellent qualities

Even you stated that JLR is in poor shape buddy. There is one bitter old man here annoyed at being called out on his racism and another old man sticking up for him and boasting about his salary on a semi regular basis.

For people who always complain about sneering you both do it a lot