Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (208 Viewers)

[duffer]

one point about the Spanish Flu. There is an argument hinted at by some studies that the 1st and 2nd waves of the pandemic where actually 2 different viruses

Study suggests 1918 flu waves were caused by 'distinct' viruses

www.cidrap.umn.edu

Interesting read that, thanks, although there are conflicting opinions even there. I think what's clear though, is that viruses certainly do not always mutate to become less virulent.

Blimey, if you follow Cov long enough, not only do you become better at forensic accountancy and law, but you also have to brush up on virology. Where will it end.

 

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[David O'Day]

Interesting read that, thanks, although there are conflicting opinions even there. I think what's clear though, is that viruses certainly do not always mutate to become less virulent.

Blimey, if you follow Cov long enough, not only do you become better at forensic accountancy and law, but you also have to brush up on virology. Where will it end.

I guess the issue with knowing 100% what caused the Spanish Flu is that we didn't isolate the flu until the 30s

Anyway i digress

 

[duffer]

Even though the headlines are massive, it's still just below 5%

COVID-19 Data Explorer

Explore global data on COVID-19.

ourworldindata.org

Absolutely. And I'll bet out of that 5% most of them are just feckless malingerers pretending to have a cough.

And even though on it's own 5% is an utterly meaningless statistic, I think it completely proves that it's blindingly obvious that that the press are just making stuff up to scare people into doing something completely unreasonable. Like getting vaccinated or wearing a mask a bit more. It's appalling.

 

[duffer]

I guess the issue with knowing 100% what caused the Spanish Flu is that we didn't isolate the flu until the 30s

Anyway i digress

Only slightly. But please keep posting up the science at least, seeing things casually parachuted in from twitter etc. and posited as 'fact', really is damaging my health.

 

[skybluegod]

Think a lot of people are underestimating this wave still. Obviously hospitalisations, typically follow a 7-10 days after positive cases, I expect a massive increase next week.

The thing distorting figures is that deaths obviously lag even further so then dropping by 6% week on week may lull some people into a false sense of security, but that just lines up with the dip in cases at end of November. Still a long road ahead I imagine

It's a right pain in the arse at work as well! We had only just started to relax restrictions (as in no longer having to do daily testing to come in). Now it's back to full on lockdown whilst on unit basically.

 

[jordan210]

Some of you might find this interesting. New estimate for cases. So the million cases was BS

 

[David O'Day]

Some of you might find this interesting. New estimate for cases. So the million cases was BS

View attachment 23169

That clearly says that because of steps taken the estimate based on the doubling time if they didn't take steps is no longer valid as we have in fact taken steps.

 

[jordan210]

That clearly says that because of steps taken the estimate based on the doubling time if they didn't take steps is no longer valid as we have in fact taken steps.

it says due to behaviour changes. Nothing has changed that drastically in 3 days

 

[skybluegod]

Some of you might find this interesting. New estimate for cases. So the million cases was BS

View attachment 23169

That is only showing Omicron? The million cases figure also included delta cases. And wasn't the million a day by the end of December? The screenshot you have shared is only taking us to the 13th right?

 

[Blind-Faith]

Welsh government closing nightclubs the day after Boxing Day. What’s the point? That’s 10 days away, gives the virus another 10 days to go through the country. If your going to close places surely you have to close them now??

 

[Sbarcher]

My wife works in a hospital. Most in ICU are covid sufferers. It “amuses” the ICU staff how the vaccine refusers are only too happy to accept whatever treatment is offered.

 

[duffer]

it says due to behaviour changes. Nothing has changed that drastically in 3 days

Actually, it has. Go and Google the impact on the numbers on public transport since the work from home directive was announced.

Then see if you can dig out the stats on the number of cancelled bookings in the hospitality sector in the same period.

What you'll see is that behaviour has already changed, and therefore the modellers have quite honestly said that the assumptions used no longer apply.

You've then called BS on it, which is really odd because they're basically saying, quite openly, 'we can't be certain'.

This kind of thing, along with your repeating the myth about viruses always becoming less virulent, makes me wonder if you're really looking at this with a genuinely critical eye, or whether you've already made your mind up that you're being lied to and you're scrabbling around for something to prove it.

 

[fernandopartridge]

My wife works in a hospital. Most in ICU are covid sufferers. It “amuses” the ICU staff how the vaccine refusers are only too happy to accept whatever treatment is offered.

Surprised it amuses them to be honest, I'd be sick of it by now.

 

[fernandopartridge]

it says due to behaviour changes. Nothing has changed that drastically in 3 days

Things had already started to change to be fair, Christmas parties cancelled etc. As it was in March 2020 people and businesses started to take action before any government announcement.

 

[Finham]

If this is actually confirmed as a lab leak rather than of natural origin, China should be levied some pretty big reparations.

That's it, it's war!:

 

[duffer]

Surprised it amuses them to be honest, I'd be sick of it by now.

Gallows humour, I guess.

Genuine question, when did vaccine resistance become a thing?

We've lived through an era when we've completely eradicated smallpox and massively reduced polio and TB. All through vaccination, with probably millions of lives saved.

We'd have made a massive dent in measles (another massively contagious and significantly harmful disease), if it hadn't been for a single discredited study blown up by the media. (That'll cheer Nick up).

Is the resistance down to something that I'm completely missing, or is it just the malign influence of social media (which is my, entirely unproven, non-evidenced, theory)?

 

[duffer]

Surprised it amuses them to be honest, I'd be sick of it by now.

I'd be putting deep-heat on their bed pans if I had to come in over Christmas because of it.

 

[Sbarcher]

Gallows humour, I guess.

Genuine question, when did vaccine resistance become a thing?

We've lived through an era when we've completely eradicated smallpox and massively reduced polio and TB. All through vaccination, with probably millions of lives saved.

We'd have made a massive dent in measles (another massively contagious and significantly harmful disease), if it hadn't been for a single discredited study blown up by the media. (That'll cheer Nick up).

Is the resistance down to something that I'm completely missing, or is it just the malign influence of social media (which is my, entirely unproven, non-evidenced, theory)?

Good point. How many refusers have prevented their children having vaccinations as they have grown up? Seems to be a badge of honour not to wear the badge.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Gallows humour, I guess.

Genuine question, when did vaccine resistance become a thing?

We've lived through an era when we've completely eradicated smallpox and massively reduced polio and TB. All through vaccination, with probably millions of lives saved.

We'd have made a massive dent in measles (another massively contagious and significantly harmful disease), if it hadn't been for a single discredited study blown up by the media. (That'll cheer Nick up).

Is the resistance down to something that I'm completely missing, or is it just the malign influence of social media (which is my, entirely unproven, non-evidenced, theory)?

According to Whitty most unvaccinated aren’t anti vax, just ‘haven’t got round to it’. They’ve had the best part of a year!

 

[chiefdave]

My wife works in a hospital. Most in ICU are covid sufferers. It “amuses” the ICU staff how the vaccine refusers are only too happy to accept whatever treatment is offered.

Do those who are genuinely against the vaccine rather than just haven't bothered accept hospital treatment and medication? Appreciate not a lot of their stance makes sense but if you won't take a vaccine as you don't know what's in it do they research every treatment offered to them or just trust what the medical professionals tell them?

 

[PVA]

A lot of them say their immune system will do the job and they don't need any treatment.

Then they get very ill and end up in hospital because they don't want to die and their beliefs, at least temporarily, go out of the window.

 

[Sbarcher]

Do those who are genuinely against the vaccine rather than just haven't bothered accept hospital treatment and medication? Appreciate not a lot of their stance makes sense but if you won't take a vaccine as you don't know what's in it do they research every treatment offered to them or just trust what the medical professionals tell them?

When in hospital no treatment is questioned. Not marching down the street with a placard when this happens!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Gallows humour, I guess.

Genuine question, when did vaccine resistance become a thing?

We've lived through an era when we've completely eradicated smallpox and massively reduced polio and TB. All through vaccination, with probably millions of lives saved.

We'd have made a massive dent in measles (another massively contagious and significantly harmful disease), if it hadn't been for a single discredited study blown up by the media. (That'll cheer Nick up).

Is the resistance down to something that I'm completely missing, or is it just the malign influence of social media (which is my, entirely unproven, non-evidenced, theory)?

The UK has really low levels of vaccine hesitancy to be fair. I think Andrew Wakefield caused a lot of grief but even despite that our take up rate is excellent.

I think the anti vax stuff is in the same nihilist bucket as brexit, the "politicians are all the same" and other things. All just signs of people who feel powerless but want to express power in some way

 

[Kieranp96]

Gallows humour, I guess.

Genuine question, when did vaccine resistance become a thing?

We've lived through an era when we've completely eradicated smallpox and massively reduced polio and TB. All through vaccination, with probably millions of lives saved.

We'd have made a massive dent in measles (another massively contagious and significantly harmful disease), if it hadn't been for a single discredited study blown up by the media. (That'll cheer Nick up).

Is the resistance down to something that I'm completely missing, or is it just the malign influence of social media (which is my, entirely unproven, non-evidenced, theory)?

Ebola? Hiv? The common influenza?

 

[Kieranp96]

The UK has really low levels of vaccine hesitancy to be fair. I think Andrew Wakefield caused a lot of grief but even despite that our take up rate is excellent.

I think the anti vax stuff is in the same nihilist bucket as brexit, the "politicians are all the same" and other things. All just signs of people who feel powerless but want to express power in some way

Agree our rates are alot better than other countrys but i still have mates well ex mates that have ditched me for taking the vaccine, the same idiots started comparing covid to cancer

 

[skybluegod]

I think the only reason I have heard from people that are still yet to get the vaccine that isn't anti-vax is that they are concerned by how quickly the vaccine was created, without the chance to understand long-term effects.

Obviously, despite the mountain of evidence against the need to worry, you can at least semi understand that view point.

The reality is that for most people this is going to become a regular vaccination probably every year.

 

[Nick]

Agree our rates are alot better than other countrys but i still have mates well ex mates that have ditched me for taking the vaccine, the same idiots started comparing covid to cancer

Really? That's extreme.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Things had already started to change to be fair, Christmas parties cancelled etc. As it was in March 2020 people and businesses started to take action before any government announcement.

Agree with this. Most people know how to self regulate, depending on their personal circumstances, especially after 18 months. People will point to the formal lockdowns having the effect but data has shown that the public had already started to reduce contacts, see people outside etc when necessary. Which I personally believe is how it should be (unless desperate times)

 

[CCFCSteve]

The UK has really low levels of vaccine hesitancy to be fair. I think Andrew Wakefield caused a lot of grief but even despite that our take up rate is excellent.

I think the anti vax stuff is in the same nihilist bucket as brexit, the "politicians are all the same" and other things. All just signs of people who feel powerless but want to express power in some way

This is true over the country as a whole but it is frightening in some locations still which Id imagine will end up being higher areas of transmission and hospitalisations (albeit maybe the ‘younger’ cities might get away with more severe illness). Checked Birmingham yesterday and was shocked, London is even worse

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Gallows humour, I guess.

Genuine question, when did vaccine resistance become a thing?

We've lived through an era when we've completely eradicated smallpox and massively reduced polio and TB. All through vaccination, with probably millions of lives saved.

We'd have made a massive dent in measles (another massively contagious and significantly harmful disease), if it hadn't been for a single discredited study blown up by the media. (That'll cheer Nick up).

Is the resistance down to something that I'm completely missing, or is it just the malign influence of social media (which is my, entirely unproven, non-evidenced, theory)?

The little god theory. We all think we know best

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think the only reason I have heard from people that are still yet to get the vaccine that isn't anti-vax is that they are concerned by how quickly the vaccine was created, without the chance to understand long-term effects.

Obviously, despite the mountain of evidence against the need to worry, you can at least semi understand that view point.

The reality is that for most people this is going to become a regular vaccination probably every year.

Yep my sensible friends who’ve not had the vaccine are saying precisely this. And you can’t tell them the science or medical opinion as they are on the governments payroll

 

[jordan210]

Actually, it has. Go and Google the impact on the numbers on public transport since the work from home directive was announced.

Then see if you can dig out the stats on the number of cancelled bookings in the hospitality sector in the same period.

What you'll see is that behaviour has already changed, and therefore the modellers have quite honestly said that the assumptions used no longer apply.

You've then called BS on it, which is really odd because they're basically saying, quite openly, 'we can't be certain'.

This kind of thing, along with your repeating the myth about viruses always becoming less virulent, makes me wonder if you're really looking at this with a genuinely critical eye, or whether you've already made your mind up that you're being lied to and you're scrabbling around for something to prove it.

Saying we can’t be certain is what they should have said when they released in information with 1 million cases a day. The number that Sage went on TV shouting from the roof tops. Javid pushed after Whitty held a meeting with him to go over “new” information.

So was the large number used as a way to push plan B ? with the modellers knowing with a few small tweaks to behaviour the numbers would not be anywhere near as scary. As surely that had modelled more scenarios.

Maybe I look for more positive about the outcome of Covid than others that we have to start looking for a way out. We cant keep an endless cycle of major restrictions for ever new mutation. especially when we don't follow the science from other countries.

Other wise we wont have any sort of industry’s left. No industry, no money, no money, no NHS.


Unfortunately science as been infiltrated by politics on all side of the political spectrum. Just look at “independent” Sage who are clearly anti government group. With no information to who funds them.


I find things slightly odd that vaccine companies don't want to give migrants vaccines as worried about major side effects as they don't have the indemnities that other countries have given them. due to side effects


I don't believe we are being lied to fully. I think people in high places don't quite tell the truth and havent done from day 1.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Certainly no increase in hospital numbers yet. Am aware of many more positive cases in those around me though. None at all poorly though so that’s great

 

[Saddlebrains]

Certainly no increase in hospital numbers yet. Am aware of many more positive cases in those around me though. None at all poorly though so that’s great

Same here, know of a good few people who have it, all currently saying its sniffles and scratchy throat but other than that fine

 

[Nick]

One thing I don't get is why isn't it being plastered everywhere not to panic and not to go to hospital until you get to a certain point and really need it?

People will be getting it and thinking they might die because of the TV and fearmongering so instead of resting and letting it blow over will be then trying the NHS.

Obviously when it gets to life and death then that's when you need the hospital but there's no real message out there that says "Only ring an ambulance when you struggle to breath, don't go to A and E unless..."